How long does it take to learn fiddle?

Two to sound decent, and four to sound good. Started at 28 and had teacher for a bunch of that time. One year to get the right notes in the right order almost all of the time, three years to make them sound a lot like music much of the time.

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ib_redbeard - Posted - 12/16/2017: 22:12:17 hey guys, I am just curious how long it took you to get really good at playing the fiddle/violin? For example, I can play the most basic tunes pretty well. Old Joe Clark, Kesh Jig, Old Liza Jane, Cock of the north, etc. But it is the basic version. No accents, no rolls/turns, double stops, etc. Were you able to play them really quick? A few months after learning, a few years, etc? I guess I am looking for a time frame of determining when I can say I am a prodigy or just normal! HAHA Seriously though, it makes me angry when I can play a tune (basic version) so well, then suck when I have to add the Irish stuff to it. How long can I expect it to take?

Thanks Edited by - ib_redbeard on 12/16/2017 22:13:01

amwildman - Posted - 12/16/2017: 23:29:09 For me, one year to sound not-horrible. Two to sound decent, and four to sound good. Started at 28 and had teacher for a bunch of that time. boxbow - Posted - 12/17/2017: 04:51:58 One year to get the right notes in the right order almost all of the time, three years to make them sound a lot like music much of the time. bandsmcnamar - Posted - 12/17/2017: 06:08:36 It's a hard question. I've been playing almost 9 years now. When I started I read something that said to be "good" it would take 10 years or 10,000 hours whichever came last. Doing the math to play 10,000 hours in 10 year's you'd have to average about 3 1/2 hours a day. That hasn't happened, so I think I might be in the 4500 hours range at 9 years, so at least another 10 years to go. LOL I do play for people and they compliment me about my playing, but I think the thing that keeps the fiddle interesting, is that you know even when you play something technically correct, there's always a lot more that can be done with it. So what I'm saying in a long winded way, is the journey/quest never ends, and that's a good thing!! UsuallyPickin - Posted - 12/17/2017: 06:50:17 Well ... there are several "things" impacting the answer to your question. One ...how good is your memory Two how much time can you invest daily.. Three Do you have a teacher. Four how good is your ear.. Five .. there is the moving goal because the better you become the more you hear in recordings. I have fifteen years invested in the process. I am good enough to play most of what I want to but not as good as I want to be.. It will take as long as it does ..... a decade is not a bad estimate. R/ Fremont - Posted - 12/17/2017: 07:36:13 7 1/2 years in at an hour, an hour and a half a day practice. I am tolerable, and 73 years old. I hope to be a "decent" fiddler by the time I'm 85. I am totally self taught, because I live way out in the sticks and there isn't a fiddle teacher within 250 miles and I wouldn't have time to go to a lesson anyway. My practice is early in the morning before the day begins, 4 - 5 am. I do enjoy the process. We have a small "old time" band here and we play at least once a week, sometimes twice and now and then we get a "gig". Just keep at it and enjoy the sights along the way. Dick Hauser - Posted - 12/17/2017: 09:21:00 That question gets asked a lot, and there are too many variables to provide an answer. How talented are you ? Do you have experience playing another musical instrument ? How much time will you spend practicing, and will you practice wisely ? How often will you network with other fiddler and "pick their brains". Those are just a few of the questions. The best advice I have read was to consider fiddling "well" a long term project, and try to enjoy the "ride". Here are some things that help -

1. Keep an open mind.

2. Try to play with other musicians. This does wonderful things to the way you play. 3. Practice with a rhythm device. It is more fun and helps your timing. 4. Play using musical notation and by "ear". Both techniques are useful and have benefits. 5. Do not try to learn a tune until you have memorized the melody. Can you sing/hum/whistle the tune ? If not, keep listening. This applies to notation as well as playing by "ear". If you are interested in playing Irish music, get Peter Cooper's Book/CDs "The Complete Irish Fiddler". Unless you have an experienced very good Irish fiddler for an instructor, this book will be hard to beat. Edited by - Dick Hauser on 12/17/2017 09:22:17 pete_fiddle - Posted - 12/17/2017: 10:41:21 How long?.... 2 or 3 average lifetimes.... oh...and choose your parents well...on the other hand, just scrape away and enjoy yourself, its later than you think... DougD - Posted - 12/17/2017: 10:50:50 I'd been playing over 20 years before someone hired me to play solo in public. Might just have been circumstances though - I was pretty good after 15 years, and there was a long period when I didn't play fiddle at all. I agree with boxbow though, that after three years you ought to be getting the hang of it. Of course there are people who claim to have learned in a single afternoon, but I think they'd been listening and visualizing long before that. They probably could hit a curveball too. Edited by - DougD on 12/17/2017 10:51:58

sbhikes2 - Posted - 12/17/2017: 10:56:25 Took me 10 years on the mandolin and there's still so much I don't know and can't do. Fiddle is way harder. I imagine I'll never reach a level of satisfying proficiency. Doesn't matter much though. I keep playing at the jam and sometimes even at gigs. As Ann Landers would say, how old will you be in 10 years if you don't [_fill_in_the_blank_]?

bees - Posted - 12/17/2017: 12:40:53 Start when you are 6, practice an hour a day, and by the time you are 20 you are pretty darned good!! Even then, it is a life-long quest. I played for about 5 years in the 90s and then picked it up again a couple years ago in my mid-60s. I practice an hour a day and while people are willing to listen to me there's a lot more road ahead of me than behind me in terms of being good at it. Unfortunately, there's probably a lot more road behind me than there is in front... ChickenMan - Posted - 12/17/2017: 12:45:18 Judging from the tunes you mention, I'd say a focus on one genre might help speed things along. You say you "have to add the Irish stuff" but I would say if you're struggling to Irish up "Old Joe Clark" then you've picked the wrong tune to Irish up. Old time and Irish traditional are two different beasts and the differences are both subtle and obvious. I'm not suggesting you can't do both or learn whatever the heck you want, I'm saying if you are looking for a time line, you'll get quicker results with a singular focus. Honestly, if you're looking to play Irish music, you should spend as much time listening as possible. Much of the subtly that make up the Irish-y bits can be overlooked or missed entirely because modern music just doesn't have it. It's like learning a new language. Edited by - ChickenMan on 12/17/2017 12:51:40

bsed - Posted - 12/17/2017: 13:38:02 quote:

Originally posted by Dick Hauser

2. Try to play with other musicians. This does wonderful things to the way you play. That will really speed your progress! If you've just picked up the fiddle, allow a year or two (preferably with an instructor for at least an hour/month) to get comfy---or more so---with bowing and other basics (like playing in the major keys). buckhenry - Posted - 12/17/2017: 15:06:23 By ''Irish stuff'' you mean ornaments...practice them separately from the tunes, including the bowing patterns/accents and double stops...The time frame on when you add them to the tunes depends on how often you practice them... amwildman - Posted - 12/17/2017: 15:22:14 Also, listen to the music you want to play 1-2 hours per day. As Billy said eariler, listening is just as important as physical practice. Listening is also a great way to get "practice" in when you can't otherwise. Driving, late nights when others are asleep etc.

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ib_redbeard - Posted - 12/17/2017: 15:28:39 Thanks everyone for the answers, it really does help. I have invested a lot of money into the fiddle, and I really like it. I guess I was just a little frustrated when I asked the question. I don't know a lot of fiddlers, so I had no one to ask. I also think that learning as a child would be much easier than an adult, which I am. I try to do an hour or so a day of practice. I have a teacher, and I am also on Youtube a lot watching bluegrass daddy and Fiddlehed. DougD - Posted - 12/17/2017: 15:30:22 It sounds corny, but it really is a journey, not a destination. No matter how long you've played or how good you are there's still something new to learn. "Stop learning, stop living." I said in another thread that fiddles respond to love, and come to think of it there's some pretty good advice right here: youtu.be/Y6_9Anaplq0

Dan Gellert - Posted - 12/17/2017: 17:30:43 Amen, Doug.

If you could listen NOW to a recording of your playing a couple of years in the future, you'd be amazed at how good you will sound... But two years from now, you won't be satisfied at all with your fiddling.... You wonder how long it will take you to coax the sounds you love out of that fiddle, but what you are fixing to find out is that the most important part of learning to play is learning to LISTEN. You have still just begun to hear what is really going on! Let your ears lead you. It can get frustrating, because they will just keep showing you one more thing after another that you haven't got yet. But... that is the path of music. A luminous good time, IMO. Lonesome Fiddler - Posted - 12/17/2017: 18:54:24 Other posters tell the tale well. It's an ongoing process. Work at it steadily and you will get better. I first picked up the fiddle in 1990. At the time I was a strong guitar player and a pretty good piano player so I already knew the basics of playing music fairly well. Nevertheless, it took me about two years before I could tolerate listening to myself fiddling. It also must be said that, despite the fact I've now played the fiddle for nearly twenty years, when I listen to stuff I've recorded just two years before, all I can think of is how lousy I sound. Bottom line, though, I enjoy the instrument 'way too much to ever think about calling it quits. They'll have to pry the bow from my cold stiff fingers. It'll take a crowbar to wrest the fiddle from beneath my chin. Just amble down that endless road. Edited by - Lonesome Fiddler on 12/17/2017 18:55:30

alaskafiddler - Posted - 12/17/2017: 20:09:21 quote:

Originally posted by ib_redbeard

....I can play the most basic tunes pretty well. Old Joe Clark, Kesh Jig, Old Liza Jane, Cock of the north, etc. But it is the basic version. No accents, no rolls/turns, double stops, etc. ...... ....Seriously though, it makes me angry when I can play a tune (basic version) so well, then suck when I have to add the Irish stuff to it. It seems maybe your question and where you are at in your progress is that you can play the notes of the basic version of tunes... but notice "just the notes" is a little lacking; This is a normal step, and shows an improved awareness. Of course what to do about it. Probably different approaches. As others mentioned - listen. But one can take that a bit further with focused listening... and pursuit of more direct problem solving... 1. "what is important aspects that others are doing that affects the quality?" and

2. "How do I (technically) achieve that?".

Keep in mind when listening to the whole (of others)... it can be a bit overwhelming each and every detail. As there are many different details, some have more effect than others; so try and distill it down to what is maybe the most significant, most bang for buck; focus on introducing the most important first. Might experiment as well, see what effects. The most important (missing) might not be what you think. It can be easy to jump to conclusion that it's due to being too simple/basic tune; or to notice more fancy notey and ornate; think only ornaments, drones, double stops, or shuffles. But it can be detail in a basic issue of solid understanding and expression of rhythm, phrasing, groove, subtle details of that. As far as how long it takes... to me, for most things, it comes down to awareness and understanding, when the individual brain grasps concepts (consciously or subconsciously) putting the puzzle together of how things work. IMO, passion, and focused effort (problem solving) play a big role in how long. Edited by - alaskafiddler on 12/17/2017 20:16:49 Fiddler - Posted - 12/17/2017: 21:14:31 How long? Old timers (and my Dad) told me it would take at least 5 years to learn to play ---- anything! If you use the "10,000 hour" rule, that's about 2000 hours a year or just under 8 hours a day. We all know that is not reasonable, so we break up the time into smaller chunks and it takes longer. As others have recommended - listen.... and listen some more.... and watch and listen. Watch classically trained violinists. There's a reason they hold the instrument and bow a certain way. It is not arbitrary! A teacher can help with this. They can also help you avoid serious injury! Master the basics first. Get the intonation down. Get the bowing down. This is what controls the tone and phrasing. If you don't have this, it will be a very long struggle. (I'm speaking from personal experience!) Don't sweat the ornamentation - that will come with immersion into the style. Listen. Listen. Listen. Watch. Play every chance you get - even if it is not the style of music you prefer. You will always learn something and meet some great folks, too! You might even find an open jam for the fiddle style you're interested in. These are always a great place to learn. (For me, open jams were critical in my learning. I continue to be appreciative to those who welcomed me!) It is a journey. For me, it has been a incredibly enjoyable and satisfying journey especially when I consider all of the wonderful folks who are in my life that would not be there otherwise!

Good luck!

snakefinger - Posted - 12/17/2017: 21:58:32 Try learning the jig 'High Part of the Road' if you're looking for a good tune to use to work on rolls. There are good spots for 1st and 2nd finger rolls in that one on both the A and B part. tonyelder - Posted - 12/18/2017: 07:18:52 Mighty good advise in this thread from some really great players. ib_redbeard - Posted - 12/18/2017: 08:37:33 Yup, lots of great advice and I appreciate it all. :D After reading it all, I am happy to hear that perhaps I am being way to hard on myself and I should give myself more time. A lot more time! I've never been around music growing up, so all of this is so new to me. I've been around sports, plumbing, welding, carpentry, etc all my life so that stuff comes naturally. I guess I was sort of hoping for the same. I'm even trying to teach myself to read music instead of tabs! But one step at a time. :D Thanks again!

Lonesome Fiddler - Posted - 12/18/2017: 10:41:48 quote:

Originally posted by ib_redbeard

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sam007 - Posted - 12/19/2017: 09:34:12 I suppose a lot depends on what you are brought up with. I find it almost impossible to play a tune without " Irishing it up" and that was from day one

ChickenMan - Posted - 12/19/2017: 09:59:17 @sam007

Please post your version of Old Joe Clark, I'd love to hear what it sounds like :-)

ib_redbeard - Posted - 12/19/2017: 10:22:19 quote:

Originally posted by ChickenMan

@sam007

pete_fiddle - Posted - 12/19/2017: 10:27:07 quote:

Originally posted by ib_redbeard

Yup, lots of great advice and I appreciate it all. :D After reading it all, I am happy to hear that perhaps I am being way to hard on myself and I should give myself more time. A lot more time! I've never been around music growing up, so all of this is so new to me. I've been around sports, plumbing, welding, carpentry, etc all my life so that stuff comes naturally. I guess I was sort of hoping for the same. I'm even trying to teach myself to read music instead of tabs! But one step at a time. :D Thanks again! Hey, i think Ed Reavey (one of my fav composers and fiddlers) was a Plumber too...and by default a carpenter..... and i bet some welding wouldn't have gone amiss either, so was (am) i,....(not so good at welding though).....power to the fiddlin plumbers i say. ChickenMan - Posted - 12/19/2017: 11:56:18 That request was for sam007 to post his/her version since they said the Irish bits just happen when they play. I'm curious as to how Irish or Old Time it might sound. RichJ - Posted - 12/19/2017: 14:47:00 I've been at in now for 5 years. Progress must be setting in cuz' wife starts to dance around when I play some of my better stuff. Once she even complimented me on some improv!

That to me is real progress.

Something about guitar back up changes my whole attitude about playing, sort of become hypnotic. A few months back subscribed to Strum Machine. Now I have something that keeps a solid rhythm going and also helps with intonation... even if I want to play the dang tune for half an hour. Playing with others is a big help, but that only happens a few times a month. mswlogo - Posted - 12/24/2017: 21:54:39 This question comes up now and then.

At 3 years I said 3.

At 5 years I said 5.

Now at 9 years, I’d say 10.

Your bar is always moving.

Jimbeaux - Posted - 12/25/2017: 06:51:35 quote:

Originally posted by ib_redbeard

quote:

Originally posted by ChickenMan

@sam007

Please post your version of Old Joe Clark, I'd love to hear what it sounds like :-) haha I am not too sure about that. It is just a very basic version of it, although I am learning the intermediate version that FiddleHed teaches in his Youtube video. It is quite different that what my teacher taught me. But I have a feeling that there are as many versions of Old Joe Clark as there are fiddle players. Its funny, because as I'm playing I'm thinking to myself, "wow, this sounds great!" Then I record myself and I'm like, "nope, never playing this in public!". My teacher wants me to go to a fiddle jam that the fiddle club puts on, so I may do that to build my confidence a bit. Do it. I just took my fiddle to a jam for the first time and it was a blast. I think I got 3 months worth of improvement in a single day. I still love to play the banjo but dang that was fun to play fiddle with others. Old Scratch - Posted - 12/25/2017: 22:05:16 You know, I've been playing for 35 years and I'm just approaching the point I was aiming for all those years ago - and that wasn't to be better than anybody else, but just to be able to hold my own among the older guys who would get up and play in the rural community concerts, dances, house parties and fairs in Cape Breton and Prince Edward Island. They're mostly all dead and gone now - but about another year and I'll be ready to start filling in the odd space on the stage or in the kitchen .....

Edited by - Old Scratch on 12/25/2017 22:09:57

wormbower - Posted - 12/31/2017: 11:35:45 I started about 10 years ago, and I’m just starting to get the hang of it now. But I sure have been having a lot of fun along the way. I picked up mandolin about 3 months ago, and feel like I’ve almost got the hang of it. I think all my fiddle struggles gave me a good head start on mando. mackeagan - Posted - 01/04/2018: 17:06:06 redbeard, scratch: coupla points that may help--1. get comfortable: get a bow hold that lets you swing the bow easy like a windshield-wiper, while keeping in control. Get your left hand fingers so you can flop them down easy on the notes. 2. get a couple good tune books: Mel Bay's Complete Irish Fiddler (Pete Cooper) has a good lot of tunes which should see you thru most sessions, plus explanations of bowings and grace-notes. Just don't get too hung up on the bowings, and remember his grace-notes for a particler tune may not be yours. Oh, yeh, ignore the metronome speeds in the front of the book--they're allright, but for now keep the reels to about 90 beats(2 per bar, start at 80 and work up to 90). 3. Get a look at the free tutorials on Youtube. Kevin Burke has some nice ones, as does Duncan Ross Cameron. Cameron plays the tune at speed, then slows it down and you can watch his fingers. Have fun! ib_redbeard - Posted - 01/05/2018: 11:15:31 I also just purchased a lifetime membership at BlueGrassDaddy.com. That helps quite a bit, since I am also trying to teach myself to read music also. Having fiddle tabs available lets me learn new songs so I don't get bored or frustrated. groundhogpeggy - Posted - 01/06/2018: 17:54:20 I’ve been playing almost 9 years now...started in my mid 50s...I would’ve practiced consistently if time allowed, but it hasn’t, so I haven’t, but I’ve spent most of these past 9 years thinking a lot about it, practicing when3ver I could ge5 the chance. Jus5 recently I feel like I got to the point where I think of myself as a fiddler...not fast, not fancy, not amaz8ng or anything special, but a person who can have fun with a fiddle on my shoulder sitting out on the porch...or, in this fun weather, hunkered down inside. ib_redbeard - Posted - 01/08/2018: 12:18:32 Thats basically what I want to be groundhogpeggy. Just someone who can pick up the fiddle, have around 20 tunes that I can play reliably and well, and have fun. I don't expect to be the greatest fiddle player of all, but I would like to someday be considered good enough where people don't find another place to go when I play.

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