How hard is it to learn fiddle?

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ARCHIVED TOPIC: how tough is it to learn to play the fiddle?

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doc917 - Posted - 04/30/2016: 15:48:10 how long does it take to learn to play? i used to play the pipes but had to give up due to abdominal surgery,is it a difficult instrument to master?

cheers in advance

Dick Hauser - Posted - 04/30/2016: 16:21:24 I also play flattop guitar and 5 string banjo. I think the fiddle is a difficult instrument to learn. A lot of studying and practice is required to play decently. I also think it has more musical potential than those other instruments. People of all ages start learning to play fiddle. If you are patient and try to enjoy the experiences, it can be enjoyable. I must warn you though, it seems to be addictive. Success always seems to be an arms length away. I keep working and learning, but there always seems to be something else I must learn and practice.

What kind of pipes did you play ?

alaskafiddler - Posted - 04/30/2016: 16:37:13 Not really that tough to learn to play.. To master... is a different issue. How long these things take can't really be answered, involves far too many variables. Like any instrument... they have their own quirks you have to learn... Much depends on really how you define "know how to play" and "master". abinigia - Posted - 04/30/2016: 17:38:03 It's pretty hard actually. You've got to really want to learn it to make progress. But it's very rewarding. ChickenMan - Posted - 04/30/2016: 17:51:40 If you were a piper, you probably had times learning when the sounds you made were more like noise. To learn the fiddle, you have to tolerate a fair amount of noise coming from the instrument before what you make is musical. It's probably easier than Uilliann pipes or Highland pipes but still plenty difficult. groundhogpeggy - Posted - 04/30/2016: 18:30:20 I think it's hard to learn. Flat out hard to do. But, as the others have said...there is quite a bit of happiness to be found in the whole agonizing experience. If you've played other instruments ( from what I know if bagpipes...that's no piece of cake to play either) and know a little about how music works, you will probably enjoy the whole learning experience on the fiddle, assuming you mean fiddle, nit violin. I wouldn't advise anyone over the age of twelve to take up classical violin ( I know it can be done, but...). As to fiddling, though...you just get through, struggling, a year goes by and you're amazed at what you can do. Second year goes by and you're amazed at how much you thought you knew that you changed your mind about. Third year goes by and you're amazed at how much you've discovered that is hiding in there, between the fingerboard and the bow, playing catch-me-if-you-can...each year beyond, you're just more amazed...at what you've done, what you can do, what you can almost do, what you know about it all...and I got a feeling, after seven years if this, myself, it's never ending. The fiddle is very hard, but the learning experience is always thrilling. I would much rather practice on my fiddle than take a trip to the moon. Much, much more excitement involved! The moon gets to feeling a little ho-hum, next to the fiddle!

johnv - Posted - 04/30/2016: 19:40:34

johnv - Posted - 04/30/2016: 19:47:03 Hi Doc, I also use't to play the pipes,((26 years)) and have been playing the fiddle about a year now. I had to quit the highland pipes due to o'l arthur in my right hand -- so there went my birls. I have not taken lessons other than the internet and I play with a group every week. The fiddle is not that much different than the pipes as far as learning---practice-practice and practice some more. you'll love it jv jefferylong - Posted - 04/30/2016: 21:32:57 It is very addictive. It took me about 2 yrs just to get my intonation down enough for others to stay around. I have a few musical friends who can attest to that. They suffered through it same as I. At the same time, it's probably the most rewarding of all. buckhenry - Posted - 04/30/2016: 22:31:40 Since you already play pipes, fiddle will be a breeze. Just saying from my own experience, I already played both mandolin and classical guitar and found fiddle quite easy to play fiddle tunes. But the classical guitar taught me respect for good posture with which I was diligent when learning fiddle.. doc917 - Posted - 05/01/2016: 03:01:36 i think i'm gonna have a go,i fancy learning as a fiddle player jigs and the like,i've managed to aquire a fiddle looks a fair age not been played in over 30 years i'm told JRice - Posted - 05/01/2016: 04:48:54 I started playing violin after retiring in Apr. 2010. I had lessons with two individuals for a very short time. I wanted to play mostly for my own enjoyment. Suggestions on FHO was most helpful to me for setting a practice routine. Dick Hauser and others has been most helpful with guidance. What had been helpful to me with music theory was attending music theory classes at my local senior center that was given by a 58 year old lady that has been playing piano since she was 8 years old. Good luck with your playing. Enjoy JCB - Posted - 05/01/2016: 06:03:20 it took me many tries to get where i am now. start/stop, few years go by and start again, only to stop again. THIS time it feels like it stuck, It is hard but it is really rewarding. now it is hard to put the dern thing down. It was very helpful this time to find a good teacher. above all else, have fun with it! UsuallyPickin - Posted - 05/01/2016: 06:50:26 Well ..... You have to really want to learn how to do it because when you start learning you generate noise not music. Having a good instrument with a first rate setup and a quality bow will make the process go more smoothly because fighting your instrument while trying to learn is a miserable experience. Pulling good tone from a poor instrument requires a very adept fiddler. Talk to fiddlers , often they have an acceptable instrument they no longer use to sell. Start out with a good teacher. That is the easiest way to avoid the many pitfalls of bad habits you can generate on your own. Be patient, because it will take years to arrive at a place of competent comfort. Worth the trip.... Yes. Expensive .... yeah that too. I play several stringed instruments and enjoy them all but there is nothing quite like coaxing a sweet melody from a fiddle. Luck .... R/

Here is a list I send new an prospective fiddlers.

1. Tune your instrument each time you pick it up.

2. Play daily. A lot of this is muscle memory and daily reinforcement helps speed the process. 3. Learn major and minor scales, practice them watching your tuner to play the correct intonation. 4. Use your pinky by doubling tones with the next open string. It will help develop dexterity reach and strength in that digit. 5. Play simple melodies by ear so you educate both your ear and your fingering. The keys of A D and G are the easiest to start doing this in, on a fiddle. I used Christmas carols. 6. Don't rosin your bow until you need to. When it slips or skates it's time for some rosin. It is easy for a new to fiddling fiddler to apply too much rosin and that gets you a scratchy tone. 7. Change your strings at least a couple of times a year. They do wear out whether broken or not. Your fiddle will thank you. Some fiddlers disagree with this. 8. When you first start out use a mute. Your housemates whether person or animal will appreciate it. 9. Find a jam early on to play at. Nothing encourages learning like having a good time. 10. Lastly .... When you think you are ready for a better fiddle buy a better bow first. It is amazing how much difference in tone a good bow will make to any fiddle. Fiddler - Posted - 05/01/2016: 06:52:22 Minumum - 10,000 hours of focused practice. My Dad used to tell me "It will take 5 years to learn to play the fiddle decently." I didn't believe him. In hindsight, he was right. So, quit you job and just focus on fiddle. Seriously, though. You can start having fun almost immediately! Yes, it will be frustrating that you don't sound like _____, but you have to just stay with it.

Good luck!

martynspeck - Posted - 05/01/2016: 07:07:35 I guess it depends on what you mean by having learned the fiddle. You can reasonably pick up a fiddle and learn a recognizable tune in an evening. At that point it's even fun to get together with other beginners on the other instruments and play. Producing music that is pleasant and in tune is a lifetime of effort. It took me a few years before my wife said it was pleasant to listen to. Fremont - Posted - 05/01/2016: 08:25:03 I started playing the fiddle at age 65. I've been at it 6 and a half years now, starting my 7th year in August. I get up early every morning, without fail, and practice for at least an hour, and I rarely miss a practice. In 6 and a half years I have probably only missed a dozen practice sessions. For me, it has been a pleasurable experience. I took two lessons when I started, but have been on my own since. I've been playing in a little band for the past 3 or 4 years and during the summer time we busk every Saturday at our local Farmers Market. During the winter we meet every Thursday evening for a two hour session. Everyone is invited if they play an instrument. Last summer we made $1100 busking which was donated to our local animal shelter. I'm not sure I will ever be a "good" fiddle player, but I keep at it and I enjoy it. At the farmer's market, when our band is playing (fiddle, bass, banjo, guitar, mandolin. and recorder), folks stop and listen, and sometimes dance. The kids love to dance to our music. All in all, playing the fiddle has been one of my life's best experiences in terms of satisfaction gained, and creativity. So, my suggestion is to go for it , with this caveat, you must discipline yourself to work (and it is work) at your fiddle playing every day, don't get discouraged, and above all, keep at it. Also find a group to play with and any opportunity for open mic take it. Good luck. bp Tbird - Posted - 05/01/2016: 09:29:57 Having a musical background definitely helps especially if you have a well developed ear. Spend as much time listening as you do playing and you'll get there a lot faster. Vince Gill once said his greatest musical talent was his ears. I think it's the number one difference in the people who pick it up quickly and the ones who don't. You can also cut off many months/years of bad playing and bad habits if you get a good instructor for at least a few months to get the basics down. Have patience, humility, and be realistic in your expectations. I've found it to be very satisfying, rewarding and well worth all the effort despite wanting to yank all my hair out for those first 3 months. Good luck.

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DeamhanFola - Posted - 05/01/2016: 09:48:09 quote:

Originally posted by doc917

i think i'm gonna have a go,i fancy learning as a fiddle player jigs and the like,i've managed to aquire a fiddle looks a fair age not been played in over 30 years i'm told

First, welcome to the Hangout!

If the fiddle that you acquired is in the state described above, do yourself a favour and get it properly set up by someone who knows what they are doing. This will make your life exponentially easier as a beginner--well worth the relatively small investment. Undoubtedly spending 30 years stuck in a press has left the fiddle worse for wear. As an uilleann pipes player myself, I disagree with those who suggest that learning fiddle will be a breeze with that experience. It's true that you'll have an advantage in terms of having familiarity with the tune repertoire (I'm assuming you played Irish pipes and are taking up Irish fiddle, or something similar with the Scottish tradition) and thus have the sounds of the genre's tunes and ornamentation ingrained in you already. But the physical techniques involved are obviously very different on fiddle. Someone transferring over from mandolin might have a running start at the left-hand fingerings, but even in that case, the bowing is quite a new skill set to learn, and something for which no other instrument can prepare you. The good news is that it of course can be done! As others have said, this will involve a lot of practise, however. Get a good teacher, find some good instructional materials--there are plenty out there for whatever genre you're interested in playing. These days I find it far easier to play Irish trad on fiddle than mandolin, particularly because the ornamentation feels easier to do physically on the fiddle (and there are more options in terms of the sorts one can employ on the fiddle in contrast with the mandolin). If it's Irish trad you're after, I highly recommend Kevin Burke's videos (especially #2, which gives a great overview of rolls and trebles/bowed triplets), as well as the books/CDs by Paul McNevin, Matt Cranitch, and Peter Cooper. They all have excellent instructions and include great tune repertoire as well, particularly McNevin and Cranitch. boxbow - Posted - 05/01/2016: 12:46:36 It's just another set of technical skills, really, since you've played other instruments. The hard part is making it come together recognizably. I expect the fingering part will come quickly once you get used to that weird but necessary reversed wrist position. Bowing will be the big challenge, though. That's the toughest over the long haul. Make darned sure, if you take any measures at all, that you get coached on how to handle that bow. Sorry, your question was pretty simple and I ignored it. You'll make sound within a week. Somewhere between a year from now and 3 years from now, you'll admit that you're going to have to go out in public despite your misgivings. At that point you won't be too bad, actually, but with plenty of never-ending improvement ahead of you. So. 1-3 years to get your feet under you.

Edited by - boxbow on 05/01/2016 12:50:54

Beachbum Scott - Posted - 05/01/2016: 21:09:20 The fiddle... it is easy to play..... now mastering the bow that is a different story, the bow is the devils tool! graeme - Posted - 05/02/2016: 06:24:30 There's a reason why so many little kids are started on the violin. And they can play tunes pretty soon, pretty well. The fiddle is just another instrument, easier than some. Try starting on a horn ("French Horn" ... which is really a German Horn, unless it has pistons, not rotary valves). Now that's a tough little cactus.

Or, Trombone.

Seriously, the fiddle is not particularly difficult to play "average OK".

Of course, any instrument takes a life-time to master. Ten hours a day.

Dan Gellert - Posted - 05/03/2016: 19:12:39 quote:

Originally posted by UsuallyPickin

Well ..... You have to really want to learn how to do it because when you start learning you generate noise not music. Having a good instrument with a first rate setup and a quality bow will make the process go more smoothly because fighting your instrument while trying to learn is a miserable experience. Pulling good tone from a poor instrument requires a very adept fiddler. Talk to fiddlers , often they have an acceptable instrument they no longer use to sell. Start out with a good teacher. That is the easiest way to avoid the many pitfalls of bad habits you can generate on your own. Be patient, because it will take years to arrive at a place of competent comfort. Worth the trip.... Yes. Expensive .... yeah that too. I play several stringed instruments and enjoy them all but there is nothing quite like coaxing a sweet melody from a fiddle. Luck .... R/

Here is a list I send new an prospective fiddlers.

1. Tune your instrument each time you pick it up.

2. Play daily. A lot of this is muscle memory and daily reinforcement helps speed the process. 3. Learn major and minor scales, practice them watching your tuner to play the correct intonation. 4. Use your pinky by doubling tones with the next open string. It will help develop dexterity reach and strength in that digit. 5. Play simple melodies by ear so you educate both your ear and your fingering. The keys of A D and G are the easiest to start doing this in, on a fiddle. I used Christmas carols. 6. Don't rosin your bow until you need to. When it slips or skates it's time for some rosin. It is easy for a new to fiddling fiddler to apply too much rosin and that gets you a scratchy tone. 7. Change your strings at least a couple of times a year. They do wear out whether broken or not. Your fiddle will thank you. Some fiddlers disagree with this. 8. When you first start out use a mute. Your housemates whether person or animal will appreciate it. 9. Find a jam early on to play at. Nothing encourages learning like having a good time. 10. Lastly .... When you think you are ready for a better fiddle buy a better bow first. It is amazing how much difference in tone a good bow will make to any fiddle. I'll mostly agree, except for #3! Only your ears can teach you intonation. Play those scales against a drone note (there are apps for that). Or play stopped notes on one string along with a drone on an adjacent open string.

A couple of points I'd make:

Especially when you are starting out, the quality of your fiddle is not nearly as important as the quality of your bow. You DO have to make sure the fiddle is properly set up, however! Start with pentatonic tunes-- The first tune I usually teach a beginner is Amazing Grace, in G. Uses just two fingers of the left hand, and the open strings below the melody provide consonant drones and good pitch reference. mswlogo - Posted - 05/03/2016: 21:50:08 I think I'm going on 7th year and I think I can say I can play the fiddle. I think I said the same thing at 5 years and 3 years :). If you play another instrument that will be a huge help. EricBluegrassFiddle - Posted - 05/09/2016: 03:59:17 Its difficult yet rewarding and exhilirating and addictive at the same time. Once you start its hard to put it down...so be warned! I have a nice Gliga fiddle for sale if yer interested (shameless plug ) its an excellent starter.

rastewart - Posted - 05/09/2016: 12:12:25 quote:

Originally posted by graeme

...

Try starting on a horn ("French Horn" ... which is really a German Horn, unless it has pistons, not rotary valves). Now that's a tough little cactus.

Or, Trombone.

...

Hm. I played trombone in school. It was my second instrument after piano. And I've sometimes said I thought I had a little musical talent ... until I took up the fiddle, which firmly and not gently taught me otherwise. Chops Chomper - Posted - 05/09/2016: 13:12:35 How hard is it to play fiddle well don't ask me I don't know I'm still learning myself. If you were to ask me It's kinda hard but not as hard as some say. I've been plucking and sawing this thing for a very long time and still haven't got it right. You have to remember that once you start playing fiddle you'll never be able to put it down like some folks have said. The important thing is you are going to have to practice till your fingers fall off. Do you have time for practice. Practice is the key to all you endeavor. If you just pick the thing up and play it once in a while you don't move forward but the more you practice things become easier to play. I don't get by here much anymore and trust me I know what I'm talking about. If you want to learn how to play fiddle, be my guest just be repaired to practice a lot. If you don't put anything in to something...you want get anything out

Trust me...you will enjoy it. Jerry

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dogmageek - Posted - 05/09/2016: 17:38:34 I agree with the advice to practice. However, my idea of practice is to play and learn new tunes. If a tune does not produce results, put it on the back burner and move on to a new tune. You can return to the other tune later. If it still does not work move on again. Repeat. If years go by and you want to double down on a tune and learn it, play it perfectly, fine, if not go to a new tune. A lot of fiddle playing involves the brain processing information when you are asleep or doing other things like video game or TV. Then a tune will pop into your head and play it you will get it. Have a fiddle handy at all times at home or maybe at work (not in a case so you can grab it and bow) and pull it up and play random stuff; tunes will come to you that you have worked on and are working on. EricBluegrassFiddle - Posted - 05/10/2016: 03:24:14 Thats what I do...I take more difficult tunes in little bites...practice certain parts for a while and then put it on the shlf and work on other stuff, only to come back and revisit the tune I was working on at a later date.

fiddledan - Posted - 05/10/2016: 09:13:31 Learn - Easy

Accomplish - lifelong process.

Tbird - Posted - 05/10/2016: 09:25:48 quote:

Originally posted by dogmageek

A lot of fiddle playing involves the brain processing information when you are asleep or doing other things ....... Then a tune will pop into your head and play it you will get it. I've found this to be true in my playing and some of my biggest gains have come after not playing for a few days. Many times I have tried playing a tune or technique over and over for days on end and just couldn't seem to get it or make any progress. Work or life would get in the way and I wouldn't play for several days then the next time I picked up the fiddle.....boom....major improvement. Not sure what causes that but it happens to me on a regular basis. snakefinger - Posted - 05/10/2016: 23:50:49 It's actually pretty easy if you don't mind being scratchy and out of tune. Shawn Craver - Posted - 05/11/2016: 07:23:04 tougher than getting the possums tail in yer first bite of stew gapbob - Posted - 05/11/2016: 08:11:42 It is easy to learn to play the fiddle, to do so just requires you to enjoy it; if you enjoy it, it is easy, fun to do, and it does not matter how good you get, if you enjoy the learning. If you do not enjoy the process of learning, then it can be tough. The key to this is the word "learn." To learn something is the process of gaining knowledge, which for me is fun. I suppose that it comes down to what your goal is—if you want to be a performer, then how other people view your playing can become important, whereas if you wish to just enjoy playing, then there is no "outside view" of your playing and you can have fun without restraint. Being an expert/performer is tough, because generally speaking, the fun can be gone if the focus is on a saleable package.

Lonesome Fiddler - Posted - 05/11/2016: 12:20:57 quote:

Originally posted by gapbob

It is easy to learn to play the fiddle, to do so just requires you to enjoy it; if you enjoy it, it is easy, fun to do, and it does not matter how good you get, if you enjoy the learning. If you do not enjoy the process of learning, then it can be tough. The key to this is the word "learn." To learn something is the process of gaining knowledge, which for me is fun. I suppose that it comes down to what your goal is—if you want to be a performer, then how other people view your playing can become important, whereas if you wish to just enjoy playing, then there is no "outside view" of your playing and you can have fun without restraint. Being an expert/performer is tough, because generally speaking, the fun can be gone if the focus is on a saleable package. If your family members and neighbors don't murder you in the meantime, of course.

Edited by - Lonesome Fiddler on 05/11/2016 12:21:37

Fiddler65 - Posted - 05/22/2016: 08:05:34 I started playing from scratch a little over 7 years ago after I retired. I wasn't sure how it would go, but I'd always wanted to try fiddling, just no time for it between work and raising kids. Once I learned my first tune, I was hopelessly and happily hooked. I play nearly every day for an hour or two. My practice consists almost entirely of playing tunes I know and want to perfect, and new ones I want to learn. I'm still primarily a single string, first position, melody player. I've found mastering double stops to be quite challenging given my large, fleshy finger tips; and I keep putting off learning chords and harmony. But, I'm having a blast. I wake up every morning looking forward to picking up my fiddle. I leave it out so I can pick it up and play a tune whenever the impulse strikes (and my wife is out of earshot.) I can't play anything I can't whistle, but working out a melody skeleton for a new tune is easy once I have it in my head. My advice is you should definitely give it a try. But, as all before me have noted, if you aren't able or willing to devote the time to play nearly every day, learning is going to be slow and frustrating. When I travel, I usually bring one of my fiddles along so I don't have a lapse in playing, and because I'd miss not being able to saw through a few tunes a day. Hope you decide to give it a go.

Edited by - Fiddler65 on 05/22/2016 08:07:55

DavidM - Posted - 05/23/2016: 16:45:09 I don't know that a specific length of time can be allotted to learning any instrument. It all depends on the individual, but had they aptitude they might scrape a simple melody out of the violin in a matter of hours. The more complex the piece, the more hours required. I have heard the fiddle played really well after five years of dedication. I believe the minimum practice time on any instrument is one hour a day. That is a solid hour, not "fiddling" around tuning, answering the phone, or making tea. A solid hour can easily take two. I stress this is the minimum, it is the time over one hour that gives noticeable results. There is another contribution; Youth. If you have it, you probably don't appreciate how much more quickly you learn than the late starters. It is a gift, don't waste it. dogmageek - Posted - 05/23/2016: 17:09:23 My teacher told me that learning the fiddle is about learning about learning. Back then I had not learned squat. More than learning playing an instrument this is about checking out the learning process. Learning and personal growth is the essence of life. My teacher did not say that another friend did. It's not how long it will take (in my case a long time and still going) but it is about looking ahead and watching yourself learn and observing the process, learning curve, etc and know you will keep going upward. Maybe five years minimum. One day you will play and through friends pressure (you've been playing for five years? how can you say you are not a fiddler; you have to play in public) time to be a fiddler. Go. bwright - Posted - 06/06/2016: 23:03:28 Playing crunluath correctly and making it through Lament for the Old Sword all the way through, repeating ground and variations is easier than playing the fiddle. bwright - Posted - 06/06/2016: 23:07:26 It I will add that playing the fiddle is much more fun than the pipes ever were for me, I loved piping, still do but playing the fiddle is much more addictive to me. Plus you don't get as many requests for that dreadful amazing grace...

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